we recovered the loose ball. november 10 is the next gop debate. fox business has a scoring opportunity. neil, maria and crew. let's show how to moderate a fair, balanced debate with real costumes. >> bye, everybody. budget deal done. debt deal, done. did anything about this number really get done? hi, everyone. this is bulls and bears. lots of law makers praying the bipartisan budget bill heading for the president's desk. not some here. they say it will never get our spending under control. here they are. the bulls and bears. welcome to everybody. lisa. you say this bipartisan deal is a bad deal for taxpayers.

why? >> it continues to kick the can down the road in the sense that it does nothing to address our national debt and growing deficit. the big problem here is it blows through the spend be caps that were put in place by the budget control act not too long ago that has been able to get a firmer hand on our increasing deficits and has been able to cut spending. that's a big problem. and also pushes our national debt closer to $20 trillion. which is also a problem. look, the biggest problem with this too, is that the deal was done behind closed doors, which is why so many americans across the country hate congress, because of these kinds of tactics. it uses budgetary gimmicks to give the idea that there is an offset in spending that's happening here. this is a big problem. the higher the national debt grows, it means slower economic growth for so many americans across the country who are already struggling in the economy. >> jonas, you say this is a bad deal but not as bad as it might be. >> it's the greatest budget deal we've had in several years. unfortunately that's not saying

much, but it is actually the most secure from like defaulting on debt point of view, general craziness. sure, it's great. the problem is, to lisa's point, which is half right, the long-term problem doesn't go away. it's a good solid can-cake. a few weeks. not until the next president. the problem is it doesn't address the issues. it does a lot with gimmicks. stupid gimmicks. talking about raiding the oil reserves to come up with a few billion dollars as if we were in some sort of war and needed to tap that. we're selling at low oil prices. we're not selling the gold off, which we don't use for anything, and that's worth more. that would offend the crazy gold people. so it has a lot of totally ridiculous tricks to make this happen. but again, it's one of our best ones, to lit it rip. >> wow! okay. john, i'll quote jonas. sure, it's a great deal.

what do you say? >> jonas is trying to find the tallest leprechaun: you're right. the other ones are terrible. this is just bad. we have a problem going forward. these are not scare tactics. every budget that you have out there right now shows us running about $8 trillion of deficit -- debt for the next ten years. if you add that onto $18 trillion you're around $26 trillion. put the long-term average, say the last 20 years of an interest rate at 5.7%, we're going to be spending -- these are real numbers. we'll be spending $1.5 trillion on interest alone in ten years. now, think about the lost opportunity. when you have a company that runs into funding problems. first thing they cut is r&d. they quit investing in them tef selves. that's what america is doing right now. look at our. what would that do if we didn't

have this to spend on education. you need to get rid of every one of these guys. >> the president has been praising this. do you bragree with him. >> the number one way to cut back on things republicans like to spend money on is to create jobs. when you create jobs, which this fiscal plan suggests there will be 340,000 plans created. that prevents people from taking on welfare and the extra costs that we complain about. yes, we should cut part of the budget. we should cut defense spending. a lot of the deals that have been made increases defense spending which frustrates liberals. to go back to what lisa said. this is the first time in a long time congress has gotten anything done. when you have the ceo for the club for growth saying that it's

because two lame ducks, john boehner and the president, got together and worked a deal, that's because he owns congress. a lot of these special interests are preventing congress from getting things done. when they have the closed-door meetings with two lame ducks no longer owned by special interests, guess what happens. you get a deal. it's great. we're kicking the bucket down the road for two years but at least something is happening. >> we always say that. we'll cut in two years, four years. it never gets done. >> no, we're never going to cut. john, back to john's point. since he made a lot of the same points. he is playing the suzy this week. stealing all my points. the interest payments that john talked about are -- they're going to be 1.7 trillion if we go back to normal interest rates. that's about a third of the tax revenues that we take in. we won't have a lot of money for other things. so not only is it, you know, just money that could have been spent elsewhere.

it's going to absorb a lot of the revenues that we take in. per naomi's point. implied there is that government is a great job creator. where in the history has ramping up the federal budget created a lot of jobs? in that case we should give every dollar we make in income to the government because they're just so great at creating jobs. instead it's the opposite. every dollar we spend, we get back about 90 cents in jobs created. we would be better off keeping the money ourselves. i can go to starbucks and spend the money there and create new jobs rather than give it to the government and rely on them to create the next world. that thinking is just silly. it's why we have greater and greater budgets, thinking the government can do all when it can hardly do anything. >> joni want to get to the marks reaction. october is often a scary month

for wall street. this month all the major indexes up about 8% or 9%. the deal didn't seem to scare them much. >> no, it didn't. there really is a disconnect between the market and the economy. i think, if you look at the market over the last, say, five years, this market has been one of the best bull markets of all time. i don't think you would say the same thing about the economy right now. that this is one of greatest economies of all time there is a massive disconnect because of the fed and the easy money out there that there aren't cops to put money into somewhere else. you don't have a place to put money other than the u.s. market. and that's the reason for the roaring stock market, not the underlying fundamentals of the. >> good point. lisa, we talk about big numbers. billions, trillions over the years. trillions and trillions and trillions. what does it really mean to me? your eyes can glaze over when you this see. to the average person out there, what does this debt deal mean to

us? >> when your debt-to-gdp ratio gets too high, it slows down economic growth. what that can mean for middle-class families and families across the country are higher interest rates. if you're a young family trying to buy your first home, it's tougher to do so. higher inflation. so if you are living on a fixed income and you are a senior and already struggling, it's more difficult for you. it crowds out private investment which is problematic. for the first time in the nation's history we have more small businesses that are being destroyed than being created. a lot of this is attributed to the regulations and big government policies and big spending policies that we've seen under president obama. so we desperately need a new direction for this country. and that's exactly what we need. >> you're shaking your head, naomi. >> for a few reasons. if we want to change directions, every single one of the presidential candidates, their economic plans add to the deficit and to the debt. from jeb bush, adding $3

trillion, to donald trump, $12 trillion. nobody is taking this seriously. if we want to have a serious conversation about spending, every time you cut medicare and medicaid, that's poverty. it's the biggest preventive to senior poverty and we have a growing senior population. we're never going to get out of this debt crisis unless we tackle entitlements. >> what about the -- >> the biggest problem -- >> it's not half of our budget. entitlements, jonas, you'll agree, are the big elephant in this room. >> let's forget even the social security/medicare, huge problems. this deal particularly moves money from social security to cover this disability -- disability has become essentially extended unemployment for many. that's why it goes up do you remember recession. people get more injuries during recessions? >> no. that's not been addressed. no one is trying to aggressively deal with that situation. we're in a country where you cannot legally hire someone who

is disabled. we shouldn't need disability but that's become as big of a problem as social security and medicare. neil, what have you got? >> economy slowing down again. most republican presidential candidates saying, you want to see it revving up again? replace our massive tax code with a simple flat tax. but would that work? you decide. we crunched the numbers. the white house reversing a plan for more tests to evaluate students and teachers. they say it's to help students. but is it really to help teachers unions? see you at the bottom of the hour. you absolutely will. we can't wait. up here first. the new isis threat that someone here says may

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isis just releasing a new video threatening the united states. the same week two americans pleading guilty to attempting to help isis. and homeland security secretary jeh johnson warning that isis could possibly sneak into the u.s. with syrian refugees. gary, you say fears over all this is not helping our economy. how so? >> absolutely, brenda. the conventional wisdom has always been we are a strong, resilient country and shrug these off and go about our business. to a large extent that's true. but look in the northeast when there is a the threat of a snow storm. people rush to the supermarket

and buy 200 rolls of toilet paper. people panic. i tell you what. if we continue to have increased threats of terrorism and one of them results in something like someone puts a bomb in the holland tunnel, guess what, new york city is shut down. that means the better part of the country is shut down. economic activity comes to a halt. people won't want to go outside. that's what we are dealing with with the economy. >> it has to do with consumer confidence. nigh o what do you think. >> every time we as the media report on these true stories it sends fear through americans. but if we report on it every day, will we get numb to it? jeh johnson was being reasonable, secretary johnson, in saying, yes, the 10,000 refugees coming over, we should be cautious. there have been tighter restrictions over the past few years since we brought in iraqi refugees. that being said, this is a multi-front war here. this is a modern-day situation where we should be getting -- we

should be partnering with tech companies, twitter. we can wire-tap people. why aren't we shutting down these twitter accounts, shutting down these youtube accounts where isis is spreading the message to americans who are being recruited? why are we not being more firm on that? >> john, american is resilient. we have survived. we survived 9/11 economically. >> we'll survive this as well. this is a european problem. it should not be an american problem. we're the largest donor to the u.n. refugee location problem. it cost us $1.1 billion, $16,000 per person last year. think about what we are doing. the lebanon and turkey has a million refugee because they can walk there. what we're doing is actually going out, finding the refugees and we're flying them here, at our expense.

to me, we're already giving a billion dollars a year, that money could be spent on things here in america to help americans. this is a terrible crisis. i think europe should settle their problems themselves. the root of the problem is syria. that's what we've screwed up so good. >> jonas. >> america got to where it was by being smarter than most countries. although having a terrorist attack here would hurt the economy, cutting off visitors hurts the economy. new york city, if we had no visitors allowed, we'd have a recession in a week because those people spend money. not the refugees but people in general. you don't want to go overboard in an effort to stop an attack, which is also bad for the economy. you have to track people properly. this is where being smart is more important, so you can minimize the attacks and have the benefit -- not giving people citizenship. i'm not talking about letting

people overstay their visas. i have apps on my phone that know where i am right now and where i was this morning. we can do better if we allow people to come here. not just as citizens but spending and working. >> the attack could come from within. there are american citizens who are taking part in this. >> that's certainly a fear. john is absolutely right. the problem is syria here. it will only get worse because we have a president who admittedly has no plan to tackle isis. we have a president who believes that climate change is a bigger problem than isis. we have a president exercising poor judgment with the deal with iran. after we struck the deal russia went into syria to exert its dominance. the big problem is that they are targeting the very non-isis rebels that the u.s. is trying to prop up. guess what also happened since that deal? iran has captured or arrested

two different americans, and they've also tested a nuclear ballistic weapon that flies in the face of sanctions. >> thanks, guys. cashing in. over an hour from now. hi, brenda. open season on conservatives. it seems as paul ryan is sworn in the liberal media swearing to destroy the tea party at hard work in america. way to go, kids. why uncle sam says you are killing the planet by celebrating halloween. hope you're happy now america. don't try to enjoy the holiday. thanks, eric. up here first, forget thanksgiving day. one retailer now going completely dark on black friday. completely dark on black friday. should more stores do the

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so, as the holiday shopping season closes in, more stores deciding to close on thanksgiving. and now one staying shut on, get this, black friday. sporting goods store r.e.i. giving its workers the day off with pay. john, they say it's good for employees. do you say something else? >> i think it's terrible for business. i don't know why you would stay closed on one of your busiest days of the year. i really think this is more of a marketing ploy. brenda, thanks to you and gary b., we get incredible ratings on this show. think about how much free publicity we're giving them. i think it's a marketing ploy with r.e.i. i think it's bad business to stay shut. >> jonas, you think it could be

good for the economy. >> in general it's great that there is more business everywhere. america is the best example of this. there is a thing called economics and escalation. companies start to compete with each other and start doing more and more ridiculous things and they have to do it. eventually the stores will be open 24/7. will that help the economy versus them closing at a normal hour. if one closes early she'll go out of business because the others are open later. it's like everyone getting a bigger and bigger billboard. you don't get more sales. you just make the landscape uglier. at some point you have to say enough is enough. they have the planes flying on the beach here. i'm sure it's good for the economy that is says don't shoot machine guns on the weekend. is it making the world a happier place? i don't think so. >> naomi, the shopping season is huge for retailers. >> it's great for the economy and growth. over the past few years black friday has become less popular

because of the internet. last year 55% of americans shopped on black friday. 44% of the number was from the internet. >> what do you think about this? >> listen, i applaud r.e.i. i agree with john. i think it's a complete marketing ploy. good for the employees. yeah, right. i'm sure out of the goodness of their hearts they're doing this. you know, what someone else will step in. urban outfitters will be open. sports authority. people fill the gap. it's not just, jonas, by opening up for longer hours. retailers come up with innovative ways to fill the holes. i hope it works for r.e.i. >> lisa, 20 seconds. >> i think gary needs to stop being so cynical. if r.e.i. can shoulder the burden of any losses it's their prerogative to shut the store on black friday. i hate black friday. i would rather be home spending time with my family and enjoying the day off of work. >> thank you lisa and naomi for

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predictions! jonas, you're up. >> thanks to the fdc, crowd funding for stocks. we're going to need more office furniture. herman miller up 20% in the year. >> i bought more on the dip. up 20% in the year.

>> gary b. >> lulu is part of a growing trend. people dressing up their pets for halloween. party city up 30%. lulu is a dolphins cheerleader. >> lulu is a true treat! happy halloween to everybody. ♪ 10% flat rate. what it would also enable use to do is for every citizen to fill out their taxes on a postcard. >> we're reducing taxes to 15%. bringing corporate taxes down. >> get rid of all the deductions and loopholes. >> only if it's about three pages are you leveling the playing field. >> my tax plan actually gets rid of the payroll tax as well. >> you know, they didn't agree on the moderators, the gop contenders also agreeing on the need for tax cuts, and big tax cuts. and tax reform to get our economy back on track. welcome, everybody. i'm neil